Ep. 8.14.1Cum sīs perītissimus et prīvātī iūris et pūblicī, cuius pars senātōrium est, cupiō ex tē potissimum audīre, errāverim in senātū proximē necne, nōn ut in praeteritum - sērum enim -, vērum ut in futūrum sī quid simile inciderit ērudiar.Since you are most expert in both private and public law, of which senatorial procedure is a part, I wish to hear from you above all whether or not I made a mistake in the senate recently, not so as to be instructed about the past — for that is too late — but about the future, if anything similar should occur. Ep. 8.14.2Dīcēs: "Cūr quaeris quod nōsse dēbēbās?"You will say: 'Why do you ask what you ought to have known?' Ep. 8.14.2Priōrum temporum servitūs ut aliārum optimārum artium, sīc etiam iūris senātōriī oblīviōnem quandam et ignōrantiam indūxit.The servitude of earlier times brought on a certain forgetfulness and ignorance of senatorial procedure, as of the other liberal arts. Ep. 8.14.3Quotus enim quisque tam patiēns, ut velit discere, quod in ūsū nōn sit habitūrus?For how few are so patient as to be willing to learn what they will not put to use?
Ep. 8.14.3Adde quod difficile est tenēre quae accēperīs nisi exerceās.Add that it is hard to retain what you have learnt unless you practise it. Ep. 8.14.3Itaque reducta lībertās rudēs nōs et imperītōs dēprehendit;So restored liberty has caught us raw and inexperienced; Ep. 8.14.3cuius dulcēdine accēnsī, cōgimur quaedam facere ante quam nōsse.and fired by its sweetness, we are forced to do certain things before we know how. Ep. 8.14.4Erat autem antīquitus īnstitūtum, ut ā maiōribus nātū nōn auribus modo vērum etiam oculīs discerēmus, quae facienda mox ipsī ac per vices quāsdam trādenda minōribus habērēmus.In ancient times, however, it was the custom that we should learn from our elders, not only by ear but also by eye, what we were soon to do ourselves and, in our turn, to hand down to the younger. Ep. 8.14.5Inde adulēscentulī statim castrēnsibus stīpendiīs imbuēbantur ut imperāre pārendō, ducēs agere dum sequuntur adsuēscerent;Hence young men were at once trained by military service in camp, so that they might grow used to commanding by obeying, to leading while they followed; Ep. 8.14.5inde honōrēs petītūrī adsistēbant cūriae foribus, et cōnsiliī pūblicī spectātōrēs ante quam cōnsortēs erant.hence, when about to stand for office, they stood at the doors of the senate house and were spectators of public deliberation before they were partners in it.
Ep. 8.14.6Suus cuique parēns prō magistrō, aut cui parēns nōn erat maximus quisque et vetustissimus prō parente.Each had his own father as his teacher, or, if he had no father, some man of the greatest standing and age in place of a father. Ep. 8.14.6Quae potestās referentibus, quod cēnsentibus iūs, quae vīs magistrātibus, quae cēterīs lībertās, ubi cēdendum ubi resistendum, quod silentiī tempus, Quis dīcendī modus, quae distīnctiō pugnantium sententiārum, quae exsecūtiō priōribus aliquid addentium, omnem dēnique senātōrium mōrem - quod fīdissimum percipiendī genus - exemplīs docēbantur.What power those putting a motion had, what right those giving their opinion, what force the magistrates, what freedom the rest, where to give way and where to resist, what was the time for silence, what the manner of speaking, how conflicting motions were distinguished, how amendments adding something to earlier ones were handled, in short the whole of senatorial practice — they were taught it by examples, which is the most reliable way of learning. Ep. 8.14.7At nōs iuvenēs fuimus quidem in castrīs;We, on the other hand, were indeed in camp as young men; Ep. 8.14.7sed cum suspecta virtūs, inertia in pretiō, cum ducibus auctōritās nūlla, nūlla mīlitibus verēcundia, nūsquam imperium nūsquam obsequium, omnia solūta turbāta atque etiam in contrārium versa, postrēmō oblīvīscenda magis quam tenenda.but at a time when virtue was suspect, idleness prized, when officers had no authority, soldiers no respect, when there was command nowhere and obedience nowhere, when everything was loose, confused and even turned upside down, fit, in short, to be forgotten rather than retained.
Ep. 8.14.8Iīdem prōspeximus cūriam, sed cūriam trepidam et ēlinguem, cum dīcere quod vellēs perīculōsum, quod nōllēs miserum esset.We too looked into the senate house, but a senate house anxious and tongue-tied, when it was dangerous to say what you wanted and wretched to say what you did not. Ep. 8.14.8Quid tunc discī potuit, quid didicisse iūvit, cum senātus aut ad ōtium summum aut ad summum nefās vocārētur, et modo lūdibriō modo dolōrī retentus numquam sēria, trīstia saepe cēnsēret?What could be learnt then, what good did it do to have learnt it, when the senate was summoned either to the utmost idleness or to the utmost crime, and, kept now for mockery, now for grief, never voted on anything serious, and often on things grievous? Ep. 8.14.9Eadem mala iam senātōrēs, iam participēs malōrum multōs per annōs vīdimus tulimusque;These same evils, once we were senators and sharers in them, we saw and endured for many years; Ep. 8.14.9quibus ingenia nostra in posterum quoque hebetāta frācta contūsa sunt.and by them our minds have been dulled, broken and crushed for the future too.
Ep. 8.14.10Breve tempus - nam tantō brevius omne quantō fēlīcius tempus - quō libet scīre quid sīmus, libet exercēre quod scīmus.Short is the time — for all time is the shorter the happier it is — in which we are glad to know what we are, glad to practise what we know. Ep. 8.14.10Quō iūstius petō prīmum ut errōrī, sī quis est error, tribuās veniam, deinde medeāris scientiā tuā cui semper fuit cūrae, sīc iūra pūblica ut prīvāta sīc antīqua ut recentia sīc rāra ut adsidua trāctāre.All the more justly, then, do I ask first that you pardon my error, if it is an error, and then that you remedy it with your knowledge, you who have always taken care to deal with public law as with private, with ancient as with recent, with the rare as with the common. Ep. 8.14.11Atque ego arbitror illīs etiam, quibus plūrimārum rērum agitātiō frequēns nihil esse ignōtum patiēbātur, genus quaestiōnis quod adferō ad tē aut nōn satis trītum aut etiam inexpertum fuisse.And I think that even to those whose frequent handling of a great many matters let nothing be unknown to them, the kind of question I bring to you was either not well worn or even untried.
Ep. 8.14.11Hōc et ego excūsātior sī forte sum lapsus, et tū dignior laude, sī potes id quoque docēre quod in obscūrō est an didicerīs.So I shall be the more excusable if I have perhaps slipped, and you the more worthy of praise if you can teach also what is in doubt whether you have ever learnt. Ep. 8.14.12Referēbātur dē lībertīs Afrānī Dextrī cōnsulis incertum suā an suōrum manū, scelere an obsequiō perēmptī.A motion was put concerning the freedmen of Afranius Dexter, the consul, who had been killed, it was uncertain whether by his own hand or by theirs, and, if by theirs, whether through crime or obedience. Ep. 8.14.12Hōs alius - Quis?One man — Who? Ep. 8.14.12Ego;I; Ep. 8.14.12sed nihil rēfert - post quaestiōnem suppliciō līberandōs, alius in īnsulam relēgandōs, alius morte pūniendōs arbitrābātur.but it does not matter — thought that after interrogation they should be freed from punishment, another that they should be banished to an island, another that they should be punished with death. Ep. 8.14.12Quārum sententiārum tanta dīversitās erat, ut nōn possent esse nisi singulae.The difference between these opinions was so great that they could only be taken one by one.
Ep. 8.14.13Quid enim commūne habet occīdere et relēgāre?For what do killing and banishing have in common? Ep. 8.14.13Nōn herculē magis quam relēgāre et absolvere;No more, by Hercules, than banishing and acquitting; Ep. 8.14.13quamquam propior aliquantō est sententiae relēgantis, quae absolvit, quam quae occīdit - utraque enim ex illīs vītam relinquit, haec adimit -, cum interim et quī morte pūniēbant et quī relēgābant, ūnā sedēbant et temporāriā simulātiōne concordiae discordiam differēbant.although the opinion that acquits is somewhat closer to the opinion of the one who banishes than is the one that kills — for both of the former leave life, the latter takes it away —, while meanwhile those who punished with death and those who banished sat together and postponed their disagreement by a temporary pretence of agreement. Ep. 8.14.14Ego postulābam, ut tribus sententiīs cōnstāret suus numerus, nec sē brevibus indūtiīs duae iungerent.I demanded that the three opinions should keep their own count, and that two should not join together in a brief truce. Ep. 8.14.14Exigēbam ergō ut quī capitālī suppliciō afficiendōs putābant, discēderent ā relēgante, nec interim contrā absolventēs mox dissēnsūrī congregārentur, quia parvolum referret an idem displicēret, quibus nōn idem placuisset.I insisted, therefore, that those who thought the capital penalty should be inflicted should separate from the one who banished, and should not meanwhile band together against those who acquitted when they would soon disagree, because it mattered very little whether the same thing displeased people with whom the same thing had not pleased.
Ep. 8.14.15Illud etiam mihi permīrum vidēbātur, eum quidem quī lībertōs relēgandōs, servōs suppliciō afficiendōs cēnsuisset, coāctum esse dīvidere sententiam;This too seemed very strange to me, that the man who had proposed that the freedmen be banished and the slaves be punished had been forced to divide his opinion; Ep. 8.14.15hunc autem quī lībertōs morte multāret, cum relēgante numerārī.but that this man who would punish the freedmen with death should be counted with the one who banished. Ep. 8.14.15Nam sī oportuīsset dīvidī sententiam ūnīus, quia rēs duās comprehendēbat, nōn reperiēbam quemadmodum posset iungī sententia duōrum tam dīversa cēnsentium.For if the opinion of one man had had to be divided because it comprised two things, I could not find how the opinion of two men proposing such different things could be joined. Ep. 8.14.16Atque adeō permitte mihi sīc apud tē tamquam ibi, sīc perācta rē tamquam adhūc integrā ratiōnem iūdiciī meī reddere, quaeque tunc carptim multīs obstrepentibus dīxī, nunc per ōtium iungere.And so allow me to give account of my judgement to you as if there, as if the matter were still open though it is settled, and to join together now at leisure what I said then piecemeal amid many interruptions.
Ep. 8.14.17Fingāmus trēs omnīnō iūdicēs in hanc causam datōs esse;Let us suppose that just three judges had been assigned to this case; Ep. 8.14.17hōrum ūnī placuisse perīre lībertōs, alterī relēgārī, tertiō absolvī.that one of them had decided that the freedmen should die, the second that they should be banished, the third that they should be acquitted. Ep. 8.14.17Utrumne sententiae duae collātīs vīribus novissimam periment, an sēparātim ūna quaeque tantundem quantum altera valēbit, nec magis poterit cum secundā prīma cōnectī quam secunda cum tertiā?Will two of the opinions combine their strength and defeat the last, or will each separately count for just as much as the other, and the first be no more able to be connected with the second than the second with the third? Ep. 8.14.18Igitur in senātū quoque numerārī tamquam contrāriae dēbent, quae tamquam dīversae dīcuntur.So in the senate too opinions which are expressed as different ought to be counted as opposed. Ep. 8.14.18Quodsī ūnus atque īdem et perdendōs cēnsēret et relēgandōs, num ex sententiā ūnīus et perīre possent et relēgārī?But if one and the same man proposed both that they should be put to death and that they should be banished, could they, on the opinion of one man, both die and be banished?
Ep. 8.14.18Num dēnique omnīnō ūna sententia putārētur, quae tam dīversa coniungeret?Could it, in short, be considered a single opinion at all, which joined together things so different? Ep. 8.14.19Quemadmodum igitur, cum alter pūniendōs, alter cēnseat relēgandōs, vidērī potest ūna sententia quae dīcitur ā duōbus, quae nōn vidērētur ūna, sī ab ūnō dīcerētur?How then, when one proposes that they be punished and the other that they be banished, can an opinion expressed by two men seem single, which would not seem single if it were expressed by one? Ep. 8.14.19Quid?What then? Ep. 8.14.19lēx nōn apertē docet dirimī dēbēre sententiās occīdentis et relēgantis, cum ita discessiōnem fierī iubet: "Quī haec cēnsētis, in hanc partem, quī alia omnia, in illam partem īte quā sentītis"?does the law not plainly teach that the opinions of the one who kills and the one who banishes ought to be separated, when it orders the division to be made thus: 'You who hold these views, go to this side; you who hold any other views at all, go to that side which you favour'?
Ep. 8.14.19Exāminā singula verba et expende: "quī haec cēnsētis", hoc est quī relēgandōs putātis, "in hanc partem", id est in eam in quā sedet quī cēnsuit relēgandōs.Examine each word and weigh it: 'you who hold these views', that is, you who think they should be banished, 'to this side', that is, to the side on which sits the man who proposed banishment. Ep. 8.14.20Ex quō manifestum est nōn posse in eādem parte remanēre eōs, quī interficiendōs arbitrantur.From which it is plain that those who think they should be put to death cannot remain on the same side. Ep. 8.14.20"Quī alia omnia": animadvertis, ut nōn contenta lēx dīcere "alia" addiderit "omnia".'You who hold any other views at all': you notice how the law, not content to say 'other', has added 'at all'. Ep. 8.14.20Num ergō dubium est alia omnia sentīre eōs quī occīdunt quam quī relēgant?Is there any doubt, then, that those who kill hold views altogether other than those who banish? Ep. 8.14.20"In illam partem īte quā sentītis": nōnne vidētur ipsa lēx eōs quī dissentiunt in contrāriam partem vocāre cōgere impellere?'Go to that side which you favour': does not the law itself seem to call, compel and drive those who disagree to the opposite side?
Ep. 8.14.20Nōn cōnsul etiam, ubi quisque remanēre, quō trānsgredī dēbeat, nōn tantum sollemnibus verbīs, sed manū gestūque dēmōnstrat?Does not the consul too show where each should remain and where he should cross, not only by the set form of words but by his hand and gesture? Ep. 8.14.21At enim futūrum est ut sī dīvidantur sententiae interficientis et relēgantis, praevaleat illa quae absolvit.But, it will be said, if the opinions of the one who kills and the one who banishes are divided, the result will be that the one that acquits prevails. Ep. 8.14.21Quid istud ad cēnsentēs?What is that to those giving their opinions? Ep. 8.14.21quōs certē nōn decet omnibus artibus, omnī ratiōne pugnāre, nē fīat quod est mītius.surely it does not become them to fight by every art and every means to prevent the milder course from being adopted. Ep. 8.14.21Oportet tamen eōs quī pūniunt et quī relēgant, absolventibus prīmum, mox inter sē comparārī.Yet, it is said, those who punish and those who banish ought to be matched first against those who acquit, and then against each other.
Ep. 8.14.21Scīlicet ut in spectāculīs quibusdam sors aliquem sēpōnit ac servat, quī cum victōre contendat, sīc in senātū sunt aliqua prīma, sunt secunda certāmina, et ex duābus sententiīs eam, quae superior exstiterit, tertia exspectat.Just as, no doubt, in certain shows the lot sets one man aside and keeps him to contend with the victor, so in the senate there are certain first contests and second contests, and the third opinion waits for whichever of the two proves superior. Ep. 8.14.22Quid, quod prīmā sententiā comprobātā cēterae perimuntur?What of the fact that when the first opinion is approved, the others are defeated? Ep. 8.14.22Quā ergō ratiōne potest esse nōn ūnus atque īdem locus sententiārum, quārum nūllus est posteā?By what reasoning, then, can opinions not have one and the same place, when none of them has any place afterwards? Ep. 8.14.23Plānius repetam.I shall put it again more plainly. Ep. 8.14.23Nisi dīcente sententiam eō quī relēgat, illī quī pūniunt capite initiō statim in alia discēdant, frūstrā posteā dissentient ab eō cui paulō ante cōnsēnserint.Unless, when the one who banishes is giving his opinion, those who would punish capitally at once go over to the other side at the start, it will be in vain for them later to disagree with one with whom a little earlier they had agreed.
Ep. 8.14.24Sed quid ego similis docentī?But why am I playing the teacher? Ep. 8.14.24cum discere velim, an sententiās dīvidī an īrī in singulās oportuerit.when what I want is to learn whether the opinions ought to have been divided or voted on one by one. Ep. 8.14.24Obtinuī quidem quod postulābam;I did indeed obtain what I was demanding; Ep. 8.14.24nihilō minus tamen quaerō, an postulāre dēbuerim.but I nonetheless ask whether I ought to have demanded it. Ep. 8.14.24Quemadmodum obtinuī?How did I obtain it? Ep. 8.14.24Quī ultimum supplicium sūmendum esse cēnsēbat, nesciō an iūre, certē aequitāte postulātiōnis meae victus, omissā sententiā suā accessit relēgantī, veritus scīlicet nē, sī dīviderentur sententiae, quod aliōquī fore vidēbātur, ea quae absolvendōs esse cēnsēbat numerō praevalēret.The man who proposed that the extreme penalty be exacted, overcome, perhaps by the legality, certainly by the fairness of my demand, abandoned his own opinion and went over to the one who banished, afraid, no doubt, that if the opinions were divided, as otherwise seemed likely to happen, the one proposing acquittal would prevail in numbers. Ep. 8.14.24Etenim longē plūrēs in hāc ūnā quam in duābus singulīs erant.For there were far more in favour of this one than of either of the other two separately.
Ep. 8.14.25Tum illī quoque quī auctōritāte eius trahēbantur, trānseunte illō dēstitūtī relīquērunt sententiam ab ipsō auctōre dēsertam, secūtīque sunt quasi trānsfugam quem ducem sequēbantur.Then those too who were drawn along by his authority, left stranded when he crossed over, abandoned an opinion deserted by its very author, and followed as a deserter the man they had been following as a leader. Ep. 8.14.26Sīc ex tribus sententiīs duae factae, tenuitque ex duābus altera tertiā expulsā, quae, cum ambās superāre nōn posset, ēlēgit ab utrā vincerētur.So out of three opinions two were made, and of the two one prevailed, the third having been driven out, which, since it could not overcome both, chose by which it would be beaten. Ep. 8.14.26Valē.Farewell.